Hmmm...
I am curious as to the truthfulness of this factoid on Wikipedia which claims that the Orthodox churches, contrary to the Catholic Church, reject wholesale the belief that the independent catholic/orthodox churches (some of them at least) possess valid apostolic succession.
And, according to this factoid, does this mean that the Orthodox churches also reject the Catholic Church's claim to possess valid apostolic succession?
posted by Keith @ 11:13 PM
10 comments
10 Comments:
I wouldn't think so. But the comment does expose the differences between their theologies of the sacramnents. If I am correct the RCC would hold that the sacrament of ordination is one of the three sacraments that marks or seals one forever...much like baptism, unrepeatable, and unending. Truthfully I like the idea, but it does leave the RCC in a quandry when dealing/working with independent catholic expression. The issue becomes one of checking lines, and forms used in ordinations...what made or didn't make this act valid. In short they are trying to protect the sacrament...wherever it is found. I am not certain how the East would consider it...been a while since I have read Schmemann...but my guess would be that they rely on or require not only valid lines and form but something from the church (the body of christ) as well. And that may be something akin to recognizing the call of the one being ordained. Perhaps they understand it as "no sheep no shepherd" and are wary of independent bishops being mere hirelings, sometimes useful, sometimes (most of the time) dangerous.
I am of the understanding that the East does not generally recognize the orders of other bodies outside of the Orthodox Church. I think they will recognize Roman orders, though perhaps not in all cases. As for independent catholic bodies, I think their practice would be to generally reject any ordination as being valid. However, if one were to enter with a parish then they would probably do whatever was necessary to make him a valid priest.
If you leave the Orthodox church, your orders are no longer valid. The Roman Catholic Church holds to a position that they may regret called the Augustinian position. It says, "Once a priest, always a priest." It's not quite as simple as that. The position seems to indicate that they don't really know if when you leave, you lose your orders, so they err on teh side of caution, and say you are valid but illicit. Here's some more info...
http://www.roca.org/oa/88/88n.htm
please always remember that wikpedia is a format for people to post their understandings of a topic. It is not verified for factual accuracy or moderated. It is not an accurate source of information.
what does this have to do with the CEC?
Anon...can you elaborate?
Why does it matter how the Orthodox feel about those who LEAVE their ranks? Why does it matter what the RC church feels about those who LEAVE? The bottom line is, the priests in the CEC are not part of either.
I've been trying to find my source, but haven't yet. When I said that if you leave, your orders are no longer valid, I was talking at first about the Roman Catholic Church. The Orthodox views them as the first Protestants, so they lost their rights and their valid orders.
At least, that's the way I understand it.
As I understand it, the Orthodox have a mixed view on this. Since they are not united in government, they have no place for the buck to stop and so no sort of official pronouncement can be made. Some Orthdox view all apostolic succession outside the Orthdox churches as null and void. It seems that others don't. And it seems that even some within the Orthodox church deem other Orthodox as outside the church.
That's why I'm going RC!
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